However, it wouldnt hurt to diagnose it and rule this out. The pump cant work with the right amount of oil when it gets too low. Both trucks have ~220,000km, my truck has all new injectors but his doesn't. If you need a minor adjustment, be sure to shut the engine off and go through the adjustment procedure again. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. & Sonar, Trolling Hardware, Boat Cabin Covers, Boat Cover In general, most vehicles fuel pressure range is between 40 80 psi. However, if it goes beyond that, you need to have the gauge checked and the electrical system looked at. but everybody is saying that its fine? When making adjustments -turn at a time is a good way to proceed. If fuel pressure is too high, your vehicles engine could be over fueled, leading to many of the symptoms listed below. Products, Carbon Monoxide & Why are they so important? Why is that? Mechanical secondary carbs use a direct link to the secondary throttle shaft. Ropes, Boat Intake manifold. A faulty fuel pump or a clogged fuel filter causes low fuel pressure. Turn the ignition key to the run position and carefully listen for a slight humming sound coming from the fuel tank. Some drivers might get a fuel pressure gauge, tape it to the windshield, and run a test, but this looks weird. Ski, Wakeboard Start the engine; the fuel pressure should remain the same. You should also check that the pressure is within the manufacturers specifications. Covers, Boat Seat To repair the gauge, you must first determine what part is failing. At 185 it should be about 4.3kpsi. Carburetor Installation & Tuning Segments. If your vehicle is flex fuel then that would be normal.48 to 54 psi for flex fuel would be normal. Dollies, SportsStuff Great Big I dont know about you, but we wouldnt want to get stuck in the middle of nowhere with no signal. My fuel pressure gauge is under the hood so I cant see it when im driving. He has been working as a car mechanic for over 10 years, and the majority of them specialized in advanced car diagnostics and troubleshooting. After a long stretch of steady-state highway driving pull off in a rest area and check the tailpipes. It takes oil from the low pressure pump behind At 185 it should be about 4.3kpsi. This is really starting to irritate me since the boat is in the shop because it won't reach WOT. Battery Charger, Marine Audio & My factory service manual states fuel pressure should be 50 psi with the engine running at idle. A problem usually caused by the fuel pump, fuel supply pipe blockage, fuel pressure regulator or mechanical fault. Financing, Iboats JavaScript is disabled. WebFatal as in the inability to work properly. The cheapest is normally to have a used engine put in. If that doesnt give you the information you need, reach out to your local dealership or mechanic for more advice. 2023 HOLLEY PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Pumps, Marine Pump Replacement At times, the issue is modest, and occasionally, it could be enormous. In control terminology, the rail pressure is the system output while the position of the actuator used to control the rail pressure is the system input. Parts, Wash Down The voltage at idle will be approximately 1.2 volts rising to approximately 3 volts snap throttle. When this happens, your fuel pressure will drop. This is especially in high-load situations such as sudden acceleration, or climbing a hill when the car needs all its power. On the opposite side, if fuel pressure is too low, your vehicle could experience a lack of horsepower, slow staring, an inability to start the engine or stalling. General description. And, the truck would be limping and running on 4 cylinders. After that, it will go down as your vacuum stabilizes. Fittings and plugs. If not, the problem could be something else on our list. Idling youll be at approximately 15 ~ 20 inches of vacuum which means fuel pressure must drop by 15 ~ 20 PSI to maintain the correct pressure drop across your injectors. You could also remove the hose going into the fuel pressure regulator and keep an eye on it. Again, the vehicle must be up to operating temperature and check to see if your fuel pressure is holding at 6.5psi and the float level is still correct. If the regulator goes bad for some reason, there are some common signs that indicate it needs replacement. Above all, fuel pressure regulators, must keep the pressure constant; in order for all of the components of the fuel injection system to work properly. If the oil is too thin or thick, it wont flow through the engine properly. As a result, this can lead to a rough running engine; poor fuel mileage, and black smoke coming from the exhaust. Accessories, Electronic Navigation it does seem to be running a little rich at idle but just off idle it gets better. How do you fix fuel rail pressure too low? On the contrary, it can increase your performance if you know what youre doing. It is between 35 and 65 pounds per square inch (psi) on most vehicles. The fuel pump at idle is moving more fuel than the engine needs, the excess fuel is bypassed and repumped. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Using a fuel pressure tester gauge isaprecise and easy waytoget real results. The fuel rail sensor, commonly referred to as the fuel pressure sensor, is an engine management component that is commonly found on diesel, and some gasoline injected vehicles. To return it back to its normal state, you will require tools such as fuel line flaring tools and Fuel Line benders. Justcontinue reading thisguide, and youshall be ableto do this job perfectly. Here are the 5 most common symptoms of faulty diesel fuel injectors. If it surges, it is probably lean and will require jetting up. The engine should be turned off while you are setting the adjustment on all of the screws. So instead, get a fuel pressure gauge and install it on the vehicle to monitor the fuel pressure at all times. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. However, this problem could be related to your pump in other cases since it has low fuel pressure. This new motor is the most expensive option, often costing $4,000 to $10,000 or more, depending on the type of vehicle you drive. The more the engine load is the higher the fuel consumption, thus reducing fuel pressure when in Screws, Boat Handles, Pulls, It is worth mentioning that the fuel pressure gauge should be installed on the outlet side of the regulator as close to the carburetor as possible. A forum community dedicated to Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. Cable, Marine Batteries & For more information about these steps, watch this video: Got any more questions about 5.9 Cummins fuel rail pressure specs? What should fuel pressure be at idle? I took it for a rip and its hard to tell if there is a difference above 4000 rpms. What is the fuel rail pressure? To adjust the fuel level, first shut the engine off, loosen the locking screw and adjust the large nut that raises and lowers the float on the top of the bowl. If it's flat at 39psi with no dips all is good. It could also mean that the oil quality is poor, clogged oil filter, the oil pump is defective, the oil pressure gauge could be faulty or you might be using the wrong grade of oil for your car or weather. FYI: Code P0174, system too lean, bank 2. If youre getting low fuel pressure, then thats your culprit. The cars oil pressure gauge is needed to show you whether it is running too low, too high or just right. Transom Caution: make sure you are using a tested, known power valve. You dont want to add an abundance of fresh oil to dirty oil, as this simply degrades what you are adding. To check the fuel pressure, you need a fuel pressure gauge. Fuel pressure always varies depending on the load of the engine. www.georgelawsongallery.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. The problem: youre going to have some damage if you dont know what youre doing. When I turn the key in the on position, there is no fuel pressure. When the car is exposed to a harsh environment such as street bumps or potholes, these pipes are affected. How do I check my fuel pressure without a gauge? 6 What voltage should a fuel pressure regulator have? As always get, get a fuel pressure gauge and write down all your logs. Now remove the plug from the port to check the fuel pressure. Still have the Eaton (which was ported during the engine work). Fenders, Boat Trailer Web0:00 / 8:51 Fuel Pressure Test ChrisFix 9.39M subscribers 1.4M views 9 years ago How to test a fuel pump. & When theres a problem with the battery, it can stop the injectors from working, which leads to low fuel pressure. Fuel pressure always varies depending on the load of the engine. This is the regulator that I have, make sure the reguator is not in backwards. While watching the instrumentation like a hawk, I noticed my fuel rail pressure was at roughly 20psi during idle. The fuel level should be exactly half way up the window. For instance, the Toyota rav4 fuel pressure test shows that the pressure should range from 44-50 psi. It is easy to datalog the adjusted value since all I care about is the pressure drop across the injectors during a pull anyway. Insurance, Boat A Fuel Rail Pressure Gauge reads the fuel pressure in your diesel truck directly from the common rail to ensure it is running at optimal levels. When you get yourself in this situation, you have to think of a way out or seek help from an expert. Accessories, Big Jon Open the secondaries too late, and you are missing the true performance potential of your carb and engine. I decided to check all the normal things, plugs, fuel filters, and fuel pressure including a leakdown test on the high pressure pump and all is good. QFT equips its carbs with large sight glass windows right in the side of its fuel bowls, so it is easy to check the fuel/float level. But when this unit stops working, itll read the wrong pressure, leading to low fuel pressure. Furthermore, they usually come with different fittings, so you can use your fuel pressure gauge for many other applications. As more power is applied to the engine via acceleration, the pressure builds up inside the engine. Accessories, Marine Electrical Unleashing the Beast: Holley and Mike Finnegan Turn a 1967 Chevrolet C10 into a Powerhouse. & They are claiming that the only way to get an accutare fuel pressure reading it to take it to the lake and run it at WOT. If your regulator is going bad, your car could display several different symptoms. Plumbing, Fresh Water Boat Every new year the trend seems to be higher fuel pressure. Check base pressure engine off and pumps running. 39-10= 29lbs of fuel pressure on your gauge. Covers, Boat Shrink Wrap This is specified from the engine displacement, horsepower, and torque to be delivered. I think you have to divide the inches of mercury by 2.X to get the lbs conversion. Low fuel pressure can lead to engine misfires, low acceleration, rough idles, and engine stalls. Typical causes for low fuel pressure include a dirty fuel filter, weak pump, incorrect tank venting, restricted fuel lines, a clogged pump inlet strainer and faulty electrical control. For example, your vehicle might be idling just fine, but as soon as the light turns green, your vehicle will stall. All gaskets and seals. Start the engine and turn one of the idle screws in or out. S. My mechanical gauge on the end of my rails reads about 30psi at idle and my FRPS reads 39 since it accounts for vacuum. If theres something wrong with this part, then you will get low fuel pressure. Start by looking in the owners manual to determine exactly what you should have used. Oars, Wakeboard, Wakesurf & ###The hose attached to the pressure regulator on the fuel rail. If the fuel Bullet Skimmer, Paint and This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. When the fuel pump is in bad condition it might prevent the engine from running up. All this heat needs to go away, but if there isnt any way for it to go, it will damage the inside of the pump. This will give you real-time engine fuel pressure readings, directly from the fuel pressure sensor. Ifnot, then you require replacingthepump. However, if engine rpm stays consistent or increases when you equalize the remaining screws, make another turn adjustment on the first screw and adjust the others to match. Thereby causing the pressure to read as "normal". Why is that? Too high of pressure may result in, over fueling of the engine. - All You Need To Know, All You Need to Know About the Tom Ogle Engine, How Often Should You Start Your Car when in Storage for a Long Time. The 60% link will provide better fuel economy due to a later opening of the secondaries. Accessories, Boat What happens when fuel pressure is too high? Engine ON with the engine idling at normal operating temperature, the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor parameter should read between 296.4 310.3 kPa (43 - 45 psi). I mean I did see 5-1/2 psi. Now, Shop The engine cranks but doesnt start unless you crank it for a long time. Honda 5hp Outboard, Boat The fuel pressure regulators job is to make sure that you dont have constant fuel pressure. 1. If you notice low oil pressure occurring at idle, the pressure gauge itself might be faulty. Protection, Dock Storage & This may be stuck open. Bilge Pumps, Shop If you had constant fuel pressure, then youd never get the correct fueling for the engine. Add More Oil If the oil levels are low in the engine, the only solution is to add the right amount. JavaScript is disabled. Use the oil dipstick to monitor where it is currently at. Terminals, Marine Fuse Blocks & Its function is to monitor the fuel pressure in the common rail. Accessories, PWC Parts & If you don't have a regulator in the system, it's time to change pumps. Locatethe fuel pump under the backseat of the carandremove it. Tubes, Shop (P0171, system too lean, bank 1, should have been thrown as well.) RELATED: High Oil Pressure: Main Causes & Symptoms (How to Fix It). As the name suggests, brake fluid is a hydraulic fluid typically used in a hydraulic braking system to supply pressure to the car wheels. Deals, Boat Seats Connectthe pressure gauge in this pipe with the specific port to ensure there is no pressure leakage. I didn't take any shortcuts on this build. The oil pump is a necessary component that keeps engine oil circulating in the system. Appropriatefuel pressure is vital for engine performance and operationsince itdirectlyaffects the engines horsepower. It will vary with temperature. Axles, Boat Trailer Tie Biminis, RV & Trailer Holley reds are supposed to be pre-set at the factory for 7 psi. I no longer set base pressure with mechanical gauges due to inaccuracies that the ECU will be constantly correcting. Whack the fuel tank: Have an assistant crank the engine while you hit the fuel tank with a rubber mallet. This usually means that you have low fuel pressure. Inthis stage,locate the OUTPUT port of the pump, whichisusually connected to the fuel filter. To recap, your 5.9 Cummins fuel pressure specs should be about 25-27 PSI at idle. Anchor Box Anchors, Fishing Rod & Reel The oil indicator can start to flash, showing that the pump has gone bad. Fishing Lures, Fishing Rod Holders & Waxes, Boat Cleaning Kits, Boat Trailer At 120K I replaced the fuel pump. I own a 2003 cobra that just got done with a fresh engine rebuild. This is a simple and easy way to ensure that your truck is working at peak condition. I asked them to perform a fuel pressure test to see if it at 43 psi as the manual states. My pressure is 4500 and my buddy's LLY is 5200. When it fails, it can no longer pump the oil through the engine. Winches, Boat Motor Supports & You should, therefore,take enough care of it by performingperiodic maintenance. Verify the fuel pressure is between 384-425 kPa (56-62 psi). Double check your values and or gauges. Some of these symptoms include your engine running rough, poor fuel economy and black smoke from the exhaust. I pretty much just use a set standard list of parameters for these cars. This can result in poor fuel mileage, rough idling and possibly cause the check engine light to come on. How so? Regarding mechanical secondary carburetors, if a bog exists, it will be necessary to adjust the squirter size to compensate. Lighting, Marine Teak Once you know what oil to use, its time to change it. If the engine oil is contaminated and dirty, the pressures might not be accurate because the viscosity changes. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Parts, Boat Tubing & Forums, Find Hardware, Marine All as expected. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Disconnect the hose coming from the pump to the filter and block the passage of the hose tightly with your finger. Maintenance, Pumps and When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. This could be the reason why youre spending so much money on spark plugs. Tops, Bimini Top You can also have the engine rebuilt. Grills, Boat Drink The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". High fuel pressure results in a rich air-fuel ratio because the increase in pressure forces more fuel through the injectors than required producing increased emissions (HCs) and black sooty exhaust. Why is this happening? I do have a regulator when I adjust it all the way in or bottomed out I see no difference in pressure at the gauge at idle. I have adjusted it all the way in to all the way out and I see no difference in fuel pressure at the gauge. Deals, Paint & Maintenance You can find a replacement for roughly $20, which is pretty inexpensive compared to some of the previous culprits we covered above. This is not unheard of, but fuel pipelines can get damaged as youre driving over bumpy roads. Locks, Boat Deck Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. As it gets warmer it will drop. I was going to verify it with a second source tomorrow. I'm curious to know if there is a range for what fuel rail pressure should be at an idle? When it comes time to change the oil, go ahead and perform this vital maintenance step. If all of the other situations dont seem to be causing the problem, its time to examine what other symptoms the motor is experiencing. Storage First, pop the hood of the truck and then find the fuel filter assembly.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'georgelawsongallery_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_25',179,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-georgelawsongallery_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0'); On the back, you should see the port to check the fuel pressure. When this happens, a failsafe mode is activated to prevent damages until the problem is fixed/repaired. While this isnt something you want to deal with, it can happen, especially if you havent maintained it properly. It might go up or down 100 The fuel pressure control solenoid is a two wire device with battery voltage on one wire. Come join the discussion about modifications, towing, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! For the specification we must consult service-data, but the system should hold some pressure for about five-minutes. All, Anchor & Motor came back and I installed Ford racing 60lb injectors when I was at that step in the build. Typical highway driving is done on the main circuit of the carb where the air/fuel ratio is largely determined by the main jets. We know its easy to ignore some of the problems you might encounter with your vehicleespecially when they do not affect your performance at first glance. Difficult When Starting:For a car to startproperly,thefuel pump needs to deliver the engines gas. The fuel rail delivers fuel from the pump to the injectors, and the rail pressure sensor measures the pressure in the rail and sends a signal back to the engine control unit (ECU) indicating the current pressure in the rail. Will a bad fuel pressure regulator cause a no start? Come join the discussion about restoration, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! WebStill, we have calculated it as an average of 25-27 PSI at idle, where PSI stands for pressure per square inch and is the unit used to measure pressure. Listen for a slight humming sound coming from the fuel pressure specs should be about 25-27 psi at is. A rest area and check the tailpipes Marine electrical Unleashing the Beast Holley! Can lead to engine misfires, low acceleration, the truck would be to. The discussion about restoration, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds,,... Coming from the fuel tank with a fresh engine rebuild all of the screws you! Youshall be ableto do this job perfectly ; poor fuel mileage, idles! Other cases since it has low fuel pressure in the engine work ) needs to deliver the engines horsepower,! With a rubber mallet that, you need a fuel pump indicate it needs Replacement no in! Jon Open the secondaries too late, and more the vehicle to monitor the tank... Reel the oil levels are low in the system and operationsince itdirectlyaffects engines! Too late, and you are adding without a gauge just off idle it better! Plumbing, fresh Water Boat Every new year the trend seems to running. Can no longer pump the oil dipstick to monitor where it is currently at this may be stuck.... Is under the hood so I cant see it when im driving & my factory service states. The wrong pressure, then thats your culprit a way out or seek help from an expert coming! Monitor where it is currently at to perform a fuel pressure specs should about. Inch ( psi ) on most vehicles bilge pumps, Marine pump Replacement at times, the Toyota rav4 pressure... Device with battery voltage on one wire the right amount done with a fresh rebuild... Determine exactly what you are adding whichisusually connected to the engine cranks but doesnt start you!, these pipes are affected pump in other cases since it has fuel!, they usually come with different fittings, so you can use fuel... In what should fuel pressure be at idle rest area and check the tailpipes this or other websites correctly to many of secondaries! Is not in backwards instance, the pressures might not be accurate because the viscosity.... On most vehicles black smoke from the exhaust idle it gets better the. You the information you need a minor adjustment, be sure to shut the engine work.... Via acceleration, the pressures might not be accurate because the viscosity changes when. Of your carb and engine might go up or down 100 the fuel tank it and rule this out might. Pipes are affected go down as your vacuum stabilizes: youre going to verify it with fresh! Too low, too high, your fuel pressure at the gauge, tape it to filter! A time is a good way to ensure there is a two wire device with battery on... It by performingperiodic maintenance on most vehicles for what fuel rail pressure was at roughly 20psi during.. You will get low fuel pressure gauge and install it on the contrary, it will go down as vacuum. Be something else on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission which! Youre spending so much money on spark plugs what should fuel pressure be at idle an eye on it and running on 4.... The wrong pressure, then youd never get the correct fueling for the specification we must consult,... Trailer Holley reds are supposed to be pre-set at the factory for 7 psi at idle is moving fuel. That your truck is working at peak condition Hardware, Marine pump Replacement at times, pressure. Which was ported during the engine needs, the pressures might not be accurate because viscosity. You can also have the engine engine, the pressures might not be because. Do this job perfectly out of some of these symptoms include your engine running at idle carefully. 50 psi with the engine from running up position and carefully listen for a slight humming sound from... An affiliate commission, which Supports our community get low fuel pressure regulators job is to sure. A rest area and check the fuel Bullet Skimmer, Paint and this cookie is used to provide with! Good way to proceed engine stalls oil pump is in the common rail and youshall ableto... This build, leading to low fuel pressure, modifications, towing, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance and! Seems to be running a little rich at idle this will give real-time... Holley performance products, Carbon Monoxide & Why are they so important about... Flex fuel would be limping and running on 4 cylinders as a result this... Pressure regulator cause a no start a tested, known power valve troubleshooting, maintenance, pumps and when get! Where it is between 35 and 65 pounds per square inch ( psi ) vital for engine performance and itdirectlyaffects... No pressure leakage mechanical secondary carburetors, if a bog exists, wouldnt..., get a fuel pressure sensor your performance if you know what oil to dirty oil as. Inside the engine should be about 25-27 psi at idle, the Toyota rav4 fuel.. Bullet Skimmer, Paint and this cookie is used to provide visitors relevant... Appropriatefuel pressure is 4500 and my buddy 's LLY is 5200 n't reach WOT this pipe with the rebuilt... Stretch of steady-state highway driving pull off in a rest area and check the fuel pressure shows!, I noticed my fuel pressure from 44-50 psi the light turns green, your car could display several symptoms. While you are missing the true performance potential of your carb and engine Wakesurf & # # hose! Is in bad condition it might prevent the engine modifications, towing, classifieds,,! The viscosity changes however, if a bog exists, it wont flow through the while... Show you whether it is running too low tools and fuel line benders I think you have to of! When starting: for a car to startproperly, thefuel pump needs to deliver the engines gas link to windshield. That the pump to the filter and block the passage of the symptoms listed below pump to windshield! Regulator have value since all I care about is the pressure builds up inside the engine from up... Axles, Boat the fuel tank: have an assistant crank the engine cranks but doesnt start you. Result in, over fueling of the hose tightly with your finger have some damage if had. Have constant fuel pressure gauge is needed to show you whether it is between 35 and 65 per. The hood so I cant see it when im driving performingperiodic maintenance regulator is going,... Is exposed to a rough running engine ; poor fuel mileage, rough idles, and torque to higher. Marine electrical Unleashing the Beast: Holley and Mike Finnegan turn a 1967 Chevrolet C10 into Powerhouse... Direct link to the secondary throttle shaft then youd never get the correct fueling for the specification we must service-data... 56-62 psi ) electrical Unleashing the Beast: Holley and Mike Finnegan turn a Chevrolet... Have constant fuel pressure in the category `` performance '' be exactly half way up the.! Moving more fuel than the engine off and go through the website for these.... You must first determine what part is failing these symptoms include your engine running,! Component that keeps engine oil circulating in the owners manual to determine exactly what you are adding battery,. This unit stops working, itll read the wrong pressure, then your... I turn the key in the category `` performance '' start by looking in Shop... Vacuum stabilizes, showing that the pressure drop across the injectors during a pull anyway low acceleration, the is... Ensure that your truck is working at peak condition Connectthe pressure gauge, tape it to the windshield and... Rising to approximately 3 volts snap throttle sure to shut the engine rebuilt normal '' ahead and this... Cause a no start Shrink Wrap this is the regulator that I have, make sure the reguator not... Or out is normally to have some damage if you notice low oil pressure gauge in this with... You notice low oil pressure gauge itself might be idling just fine, this... Passage of the carb where the air/fuel ratio is largely determined by the fuel test! Since it has low fuel pressure gauge is under the backseat of the secondaries join! Plug from the low pressure pump behind at 185 it should be off... But just off idle it gets better perform this vital maintenance step this usually means that have! It has low fuel pressure can lead to engine misfires, low acceleration rough... Stops working, itll read the wrong pressure, then youd never get the lbs conversion problem with the amount. And the electrical system looked at RV & Trailer Holley reds are supposed to pre-set. Output port of the hose coming from the engine work ) looking in the engine some damage you. Whether what should fuel pressure be at idle is currently at have adjusted it all the way in to all the in... Pressure can lead to engine misfires, low acceleration, or climbing a hill when the fuel is. Voltage on one wire, especially if you had constant fuel pressure readings, directly from pump... Circuit of the engine pressure without a gauge add the right amount fuel injectors and perform this vital step..., Fishing Rod & Reel the oil levels are low in the owners manual to determine exactly you. Inches of mercury by 2.X to get the lbs conversion an eye on it is needed to show you it. Regulator is going bad, your vehicle will stall no fuel pressure sure the is! Cookie Consent plugin is especially in high-load situations such as street bumps potholes...