had worked very rapidly. Pet parents focus on flea protection all year roundand with good reason. Predatory nematodes like these may be purchased and applied by drench or spray method to control flea beetle larvae. I have a stray cat that I took in last November 23rd of 2015. We are giving DE a shot. I have had a number of readers asking about the density of DE that is needed. Thanks! I do leave Boo go outside to roam around during the day, and he mainly comes in at night to eat/sleep. I plan to reapply it every couple of days for a few weeks to ensure I catch any eggs that hatch, but just wanted to write in how happy and restful I feel being able to relax on my sofa with my tea and a movie and sleep without fear of nips in the night. Drink lots of water. We recognize that amidst so many choices to buy Diatomaceous Earth Vs Nematodes For Fleas in the market, it can be perplexing and confusing to make the right pick. Any suggestions to keep them off me? And more importantly, is it safe and effective? It sounds like some vacuum up immediately. And upstairs we have wood floors so I sprinkled it here and there only to fibd out I was seeing fleas still and were all still being bit. Hi Dave! I wont be able to handle months of this, my stress will likely kill me and I cant afford costly options. Hi William, rather just use the nematodes first and see how that goes, as from my personal experience, DE isnt great outside. Would love to know your feedback. Hope that helps you! Sprinkle it on your main crop and around the base of the plants. Hes been wearing the DE dust coat for a few days now, I flea comb him several times a day and Im still finding flea dirt. He wants to be fussed, but will only tolerate it when he is half asleep. It was put in small rugs that can be washed in washer. I bought a 10lb bag of DE. Hey Lori! It also has calcium bentonite. Thank you for your article! When the question was posed originally I could not find contrary information. Yarrow powder and Eucalyptus oil added also is beneficial. You will be fine, dont stress just always use food grade in future. I just wanted to add that the Diatomaceous Earth has to be food grade (not the kind used in pool filters, which is dangerous to animals and humans). Gonna do my bed, clothes, drawers and everything. I sprinkled it on carpet and sofas.. Is it safe for my 9 year old daughter to be me in the same room that I sprinkled carpet in? Although I personally dont suggest you use DE as the primary method of killing fleas on your adult pets, it wont do any harm to them (besides the skin getting a little dry) and many of my readers have reported success in doing so. Although it is not toxic, it can cause dryness and . Thanks for your detailed experience, its appreciated! If not, do you have any suggestions? You can definitely add stuff like that (it would probably help) but its not absolutely necessary. Hello again. Does all the DE have to be cleaned up? We have blackout curtains in our bedroom also. Could I put some DE in bag with bedspread, shake it around, let it set for day or two, then wash in warm water and warm dryer. Keep up the good work! Hi Suzanne, I have only ever used the white one, so probably go with that. and when I put it all around house, when do you vacuum it up? You are and it sounds like you are doing a good job, well played! Thanks to you & commenters who shared how they apply it! While I havnt had a problem with my bird, DE is rather dusty and it if you dont apply it carefully, it could puff up and that wont be good for your feathered friend. Hi Christine, it will be fine, please post your results . Good luck! However, best bet would be to phone them and ask if it is safe. DE is really magical, just always got to make sure that its 100% pure otherwise it could cause major issues. I gave him a good 10min soak in dawn soap last night and afterwards brushed him out like crazy. So glad I found you and youre super informative site, Natasha. Hi Claudia! Hope that helps, please share this on Facebook if you appreciate my time . This is ground remains of a freshwater algae called Diatoms. Hi, I have a quick question. How small are you meaning? Ive washed his bedding and will apply DE to our one piece of carpet in the house. On monday, we set off Raid max foggers and took our dog to the vet for a chewable, they gave him Comfortis. It doesnt feel humid in here, but I live in Austin, Texas, so its always kind of humid! I have one chair I still feel bitten up at night, tomorrow I bomb with the no Mess fogger that doesnt require you to shut off the gas but it doesnt have an IGR BECAUSE OF THAT. Dusting the comforter cover will work, just do it lightly and you will be fine. Im going to order it asap as the poor gals are miserable. I recommend it is used for the home and sleeping areas. I know its possible to apply safely but I am not going to recommend it and have hundreds of people knocking on my door with pitchforks in their hands . I havnt personally used that brand but provided its food grade, it will kill a ton of insects including roaches. Today we did the living room because I only spread salt in there. Please share this article with your friends and family. At this point Im not sure if only one was brought into the house, or multiple. Hi Alissa! Hi Mandie! Alexis Morin is an avid gardener who resides on and manages a horse ranch in north Texas. These traps may be used to trap insect pests, but their real value comes in helping to scout and identify the insects living in your garden. Hey Colleen! One method we have done is to dust the rug and then play with the cats. Great article! I just bought the safer brand just for inside my house. Do I put the DE down and treat my pets at the same time or how would you suggest I go about the whole problem. Is it because there are still eggs in my home? Do that for a few days and let me know the results! Hi Sue, it is safe but I have heard that it can get in their nostrils a bit so rather keep them away, maybe put them in the bathroom? Diatomaceous earth (DE) will make your garden look like it survived a flour bomb explosion, but it is a powerful organic weapon to have on hand when you're going to war with beetles, and various other insect pests. Although they will probably be fine, rather keep the small ones out the room to be safe. Hey Susanne! I use a spray bottle, with a 1:2 ratio of DE:Water. Hey Rachel! Hey Tammy! If you store items under your bed you need to move them, vacuum, then dust the entire under-bed area with DE. (She was sleeping on my bedroom floor at the start of the outbreak. Are they leftover from the fleas? We did have a few questions that we cant seem to find answers for, though. DE is fine for them -internally in small amounts it will help keep them flea and parasite free..(.food grade only for pets and humans). Couple of questions. I am so glad to have found your article. or will the DE kill the nematodes? Really enjoyed reading some great information and advice from the article and comment section. Fleas have to come into contact with the DE to die so a repeat application will just ensure that it works 100%. My backyard nearly looks like it has snowed (I live in Florida and its September!). If you do have fleas in your hair, a simple wash under hot water will kill all of them so you dont need to worry about that. They cant reach where topical are applied or the collar. Hi Suzanne, the dawn and warm water should have killed the fleas instantly, if it didnt, perhaps you didnt reach all areas during the wash. Alternatively, it is possible that he got the fleas from his bedding before they were flea free, thus starting the cycle again. And they are spread throughout the body. Never? I dont recommend using the DE directly on your pets. Great for hair breakage and thinning hair!! And is it just for crevices or areas where my pets will lie or is it to be used on entire surface areas? I have sprinkled it on them into their furs, I have sprinkled it in all areas where they lay, I have sprinkled it wherever we get bitten while standing or sitting..and EVERY horizontal place in my home is now covered with the dust from it. And in my laundry, there are black specks in my clothes? Any advice for the red lakes powder would be much appreciated. I also need to know how to get under the beds, as I am elderly, and cant move furniture? Hey Niecy! He stated he was coming down with a little cold, so I said I cant imagine how you can catch cold when I use so much garlic cooking. Hi Kathy, agreed, white is better. Wow, it sounds like you have a fairly bad insect problem but trust me, DE is going to help you get rid of more then just those fleas. Could you tell me if I need another type? You can use it outside but it looses effectiveness if it gets wet so yeah. No offense to them, but if it has a toxic label, its very unlikely that its safe for your pets and kids. Hi Charlene! Instead of poisoning the buggers, it actually cuts their exoskeleton (their hard outer shell) and sucks the water out their bodies. I was just about to use it on my carpets but wanted to check your site to see how it was applied. I just purchased Red Lake earth diatomaceous with calcium bentonitie for use on my carpet. Hey Joan! Thanks! Hi Kelly, if it is food grade, then yes. Hey Shannon! Ive tried everything to get rid of the fleas but nothing works. She doesnt get bites, but I am covered with them every summer and suffer greatly. Some good trap crops include radishes, giant Chinese mustard, collards, and bok choy. I had been suffering from pesticide resistant mutant fleas for about almost a month now. Just for future reference, you dont need to get the stuff everywhere, controlled application is possible when you place the DE in a plastic container with holes in the lid and apply it as you would use a salt shaker. Its wonderful to use with chickens. Will this work if I put it on and then vacuum later? But way worth it to stay healthy. However, now that the powder is no longer there, they are back again. Hi Vickie! After reading your blog I ordered food grade D-Earth from Amazon and put it down today. They will get Bravecta this week, I also used, Siphotroll Plus 2 a spray from the vet for my furniture (and carpets) You can also get the Siphotroll Plus 2 from Kmart for 10.99 for a 3 pack (online only) as a bomb and it is the same strength as the vet. Hi, we noticed a few fleas yesterday. in fact, farmers use it all the time in their animals food (about 3% is the norm) and if you google around a bit, youll see how helpful its been for their health! I am starting it today. A few days after our house had been serviced by pest control, we noticed my chihuahua started itching. I am now struggling to vacuum it up, my filter gets blocked in a couple of minutes and I cant see around my house as the DE flies into the air. Naturally Im extremely paranoid and am doing all I can to kill them. It didnt affect them negatively, and when I treated the window sills and rug they actually started going and rolling in those areas or pushing themselves into those areas until their coats were dusted again. If yes, how often should it be applied? It never seems to get better. We dont really want to hurt the snakes as they are harmless black snakes and are doing a good job of keeping rodents from entering our home (we live in a huge hay field so we are a target). Hope that helps! Hi Kimberly, if it doesnt specifically say Food Grade on it, I dont recommend it. Hey PJ. The house fells incredibly clean, but our dog is still scratching herself after we placed a flea collar on her and my cat (cat isnt scratching). However, since we dont know its exact compound makeup, I recommend going online and just getting it delivered to your door, thats what I do Just make sure that you get the pure stuff that doesnt contain insecticides. Secondly, when using the broom, it is all about small, mainly downwards movements. Hi Natasha, I have two baby pigmy goats, 30 chicks (number to be reduced as soon as I determine which are roosters) that share an enclosed area. I removed her from the room and placed her in a smaller room that had already been treated. I think it also may be that the weather here in PA is cooling, but still humid and i have recently turned the AC off. Hi Natasha, I did a search of this page for the term Red Earth with no results. I used a drain strainer to put the DE through my entire house but I still think I may have used to much. Read more about floating row covers here. My daughter used de, a bit too heavy and vacuum doesnt work and wet rag does help. If the DE isnt bothering you, you can just leave it down, will prevent any further infestations as well so that is a bonus. Your comment will also help the community, so I appreciate it. Cooler weather is helping too. That sounds like a good plan, try it and let me know how it goes! Thanks. Thanks for posting these detailed steps! We vacuumed, put down DE everywhere and left it for a week. The last time Honey, the dog, was here laying on my couch, she was getting bit by fleas. Hope that helps! How often is safe to dust her with DE? Cedarcide is the product that I came across and it works. Thanks, glad you have found them useful To be honest, it sounds like its just leftover flea dirt, shouldnt be anything to worry about. I set out homemade traps to see the extent of the infestation but did not catch any fleas. Im reading articles here that right now dont apply to any current situation I have, but I just love these kinds of articlesyou never know when youll need them! Are there spots they like to lay eggs more than others? My parents brought home a puppy and the poor thing is infested with fleas. Hi Natasha, Thank you for the very informative advice on how to treat flea infestations. If this still doesnt remedy the situation, get yourself a steam cleaner as the high temperature will kill those fleas fairly quickly. Carpet, bedding, dogs. They will lay the eggs in places where your lamps are at. We just found some fleas on our cat. Do you have a picture of what you use to spread the DE in your house? They had smaller bags of it but I will be puting it in the dogs beds, where the lay in the yard, etc. I wouldnt recommend putting it on your pets (even though it wont hurt them), rather use a spot on treatment . I work 10am to 7pm and so I cant vacuum very often? 2. does DE work against roaches? They cannot survive in high heat but will die off once they have eaten the pests anyway. I am battling a flea problem. how would I use? Hi Sally, I am going to be honest with you and say that I dont know the specific ingredient differences. I seen 2 of them, so far. Hey Shawn! Hope that helps, please share this article with your friends . Hi George! I dusted their room with Borax, including under the bed, washed their sheets, vacuumed daily, now every other day, but I still catch about 5 per night. I do need to add that after I did the Borax my vacuum cleaner broke and it took 4 days to get it back. I plan on buying larger bags of the food grade and using it from here on out but Id hate for the first 2 bags to go to waste. It is a pleasure, I try my best to answer everyone Good luck! I started reading all the comments and now its way past my bedtime! Hi Diana! Im terrified of going out there because my angles and legs are so scarred from continuous bites (they must like Chinese food hahaha) everytime I open my front door I see some jumping around. Even then, they can be bothers. Im hoping that getting her dusted isnt going to be a big fight. Hi Ginette! This weekend our dogs came home from my in-laws farm completely covered in fleas so I went to work this morning. Yes you can, thanks for the question! Much appreciated, the extra exposure will help and your kind words give me energy Thanks for the heads up, I will definitely keep that in mind for my community! Food grade DE is mixed with animal feed (where it coats particles) to prevent binding and clumping. If there are fleas on your dog, I suggest a topical spot on treatment. We want to do this as quickly as possible. I have a question I bought Diatomaceous red lake earth with calcium bentonite food chemical codex grade is this safe to use on my dog and cats? Great Pet Media does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Another question is, how long can they go without feeding on blood before they die?.. Let me know if you have any other questions! To be honest, if you can afford the exterminator and they can confirm their treatment will not affect your family, go for it. Will this one still work just a good as the food grade? Before using diatomaceous earth to control fleas, understand the caveats. Do not apply diatomaceous earth directly to your pet. The battery operated one works just as well, promise. I plan to leave the dust for at least a month till i dont get bit anymore, heard the eggs take weeks to hatch unless they sense carbon dioxide. However, there are a few considerations (health, etc.) Cant afford an exterminator. That made things worse, like we pissed of an army, they came out like crazy with a biting vengeance. Rather use DE in the house (carpets, etc.) Rub it or sprinkle it. Read more about planting and using trap crops here. Wow that is incredible, thanks for sharing that experience with us . I used de from lowes on my carpet in the living room, I just did some research on their website and it says its not food grade. Also, is it better to use the DE mixed with Borax or just on its own? . I am freaked out by all of this. Thanks for sharing your experience and keep up the good work, it is very admirable . Also the fleas are heading towards parts of the dog where I have to be careful putting the powder. Unlike the Nematodes, this is most effective when left dry for a bit.. It will not be effective when wet, but when it dries out, it should have some efficacy.. Going into a little more detail, the diatomaceous earth is formed from algae with siliceous shells. I hope that you share your new found knowledge with your friends and family so that they can also have a fantastic method for getting rid of fleas . I dont think just using DE on the dogs will work at this point since there are so many on them. Hey Nancy! My pets are laying in it on floors. Using Borax on the floor near the bed and have a pan of water with a light on it for night time. Im very hopeful. Over the last couple of years, people have been blasted with such a large amount of different flea removal methods that its become difficult to determine whats best for your flea problem. Join thousands of pet parents and get vet-approved guidance, product reviews, exclusive deals, and more! Keep doing what you are doing, you will definitely resolve your flea issue that way (especially with the DE). I have the DE you can put on your food n dogs food but stopped using this past year sue to life lol but I am dying to start using again cause I bought like a 50lb bag from a all natural place few years ago and have kept it in my dining room away from moisture or heat, and wondered what the life is for DE, someone told me can be 10yrs if kept dry and wondered if true before I begin to use again. @Bonnie, the itching and scratching will usually last awhile, especially if they were infested pretty bad. You may see one or two now and then but do not panicthey missed the powder somehow but they wont avoid it for long. Hi, love your advice ! Sorry, these ticks have me all flustered. The DE is a pain to vacuum up because it will clog your vacuum cleaner filters quickly. She doesnt like contact unless she initiates it, so giving her a dawn bath to give her immediate relief is out of the question unfortunately.). How long should this process take? So I panicked and put Frontline on him before I discovered DE. Ive recently experimented with using a power sprayer (think Wagner) for large area coverage in a very short amount of time (in our rental property) and had great success. I stood Luck. It makes me happy knowing that i have assisted with your fight against fleas For your old dog that has licked himself dry, using natural treatments (such as lemon, dawn, etc.) But when searching, there it was. Do you think this will work ok? Veterinarians generally advise against the use of diatomaceous earth for fleas on cats and dogs. I purchased DE yesterday, and in a hurry to slove the problem, POURED the DE powder everywhere; baseboards, carpets, couches, etc. All the best. It contains food-grade DE, but it also has other active ingredients (read: chemicals) in it to kill faster. My skin has never been so clear. I hate fleas!! My dogs are inside dogs but have access to a large patio area. etc., etc., etc. But I have seen flea dirt in the sheets just 1 or 2. Hope that helps. They are all Diatomed! Hi, love this article, very informative, and Im heading out today to get some DE. Any suggestions? I only use food grade but I am sure that she knows what she is talking about. Hadnt read your website, though, until this morning (great, detailed information, and such a quick turn around for questions). I have used a spot treatment for both of the cats I rescued from the shelter, but found theyre still scratching and Im seeing fleas. Can I use it on furniture and mattresses too? How can we keep him from picking up fleas from this place again? Leslie, im not real sure abuot the aunts but I would say right away as they begin to eat and continue to do so until it is too hot outside. DE is also virtually non-toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates, scientists say. I bathed him with dawn and applied frontline while following up with flea comb daily. In warmer regions, multiple generations may occur each year. Been going to them for years for both my cats and reptiles. Thanks for your kind words. Thank you! A flea that ingests diatomaceous earth will be torn apart, explains Dr. Costantino. I suggest using fresh lemon and warm water, around once a week. Hi CJ, thanks for helping Bonnie, much appreciated . Thanks for your articles, I read almost all of them on several bugs, different treatments, products, traps and etc. I just purchased some DE, to spread on the floor. Hey there.. so excited to finally try DE. I would like to know if it is safe to dust her cat tree that she sits in with safer brand d earth from home depot. They also love TVs. I would just wipe the laminate with warm soapy water and then use DE on your carpets. Hi Justin! This time they both got baths, then a spot on treatment and also some DE to kill the ones that were still hanging on. My dog is scheduled for neutering in November and I really would like the bugs to be gone by then. To be honest, I use it primarily for inside the house and get a insect spray for the yard. The only way I find a flea is visual inspection by hand and I always catch the little buggers. if i apply lightly around the corners of bedrooms and around bed can we sleep in that room ? Ive been fighting fleas for awhile. In a family of four the fleas only bit me my legs and arms look like swiss cheese. If you want to learn more, check out my article on the topic under the fleas category (top menu). I decided to go with bombing our basement & following up with DE, The only problem Im having is finding the DE in 90+ concentrations. Any feedback will help, thanks in advance! Let me know if you have any more questions! However, it seems pretty common here. Hey Stacy! I bought some DE a week ago, all my furniture is in the middle of the room and Ive used a sieve to evenly spread over the carpets, Im 38 weeks pregnant and only managed to do one room at a time, is this any good or do I need to do the whole house in one? Im vacuuming all upholstery and carpets 2- 3 times a day as well as vacuuming the bare floors and mopping daily. The powders work. Thanks for the tip, I am sure that many will benefit from it! However, we have 6 bedrooms all carpeted and we have been experiencing flea bites. As a bonus, brush it into the carpet, etc. Thanks. Hi Kevin, apologies for the late response. I have published a book, worked with many pest control companies, and helped thousands with various infestations on a one-to-one basis. Now, though, im concerned that the Advantage wont work if there is still DE in their fur. I have seen you respond to others about it being ok to leave on couches and beds etc.. drsfostersmith.com has GREAT prices on Seresto and is a GREAT company. Thanks for putting the info about DE on the web, so much better than all the poisons out there. Thanks for this DE info. So I bought 1.5 lbs of LUMINO Diatomaceous Earth at Kahoots Pet Store in Southern California. However, I am sure that removing them, applying the DE and once it has been removed, bringing them back should not harm them. Combine all these and I am positive you will win the battle. If I just hit the rugs, cloth furniture and such will that help? How can I use this product on concrete or laminate? Wow that sounds legit. Its my pleasure and thanks for taking a moment to share this article, I really appreciate it I am glad that you are starting to see results, if you need more help, just shout and I will see what I can do. i would like to treat my whole house at the same time, but honestly dont have anywhere i can take them while its on the floor. An easy solution is to just keep them out the room, just so it doesnt affect their skin. For your pets, just get a spot on (such as Frontline). If you do use it this way, Falk recommends reapplying if after it rains or every few days in areas of high humidity. Absolutely, unless you have very small kittens (even this shouldnt be a major problem), its completely safe for your family and pets. I use it in the yard and I removed my carpets with DE to the garage for the summer. Just tonight I found one just chilling on my chest. My house was infested with fleas. I apply it with my hands, they get a little dry but nothing a good wash and some lotion wont cure. Hope that helps . Thank you so much! As replant is my new cologne and linen spray. Apparently, they only sell the food-grade brand online. Cost from my own pocket. Mainly just wanted to pass along the suggestion on where to use DE on your pet if you get that desperate, and thank you for all your hard work. Hi, I was wondering at what age I can use this on my pups?? Hi Denise, I have never used it on a tree before but yeah sure, if there are fleas that walk through it (and its dry), they will get taken out so go for it. Have also used a product called IGR, which keeps the fleas from maturing and laying more eggsand lasts for 7 monthsso another thing you might consider. Hello! I will appreciate anything you say on the matter. This is a process, so dont think after two days you will be flea free! Hi Tula, just put the DE wherever fleas might be hiding. Its in a yellow bag, 4lbs. Yes, provided its food grade and you vacuum it up (otherwise it can be a bit dehydrating to her body), that will be fine. I think its important to remember that pets are no less vulnerable to these side effects, says Hanna. My poor cat is losing her fur because of these damn fleas. Hi Shelby! I would say not to mix them. While research about the effectiveness of diatomaceous earth for flea control is unsubstantiated, there are some advantages to using food grade diatomaceous earth. So, of course, now i have them all over the house as well! Just tried this tonight. They love him. It is used by hotels to control bed bug infestations also. Hi Lori! DE isnt really for direct application on your pets. Will definitely do as you suggest. The stray cat, I call him Boo, did not have any fleas all winter. We used a fogger in our boys room as their room was the worst. It wont help kill fleas though but its still very useful . Also will it harm bees? 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Bed, clothes, drawers and everything is no longer there, they gave him.... Recommends reapplying if after it rains or every few days in areas high... In our boys room as their room was the worst friends and family when the question was originally. Bonnie, much appreciated apply lightly around the base of the infestation did... She was sleeping on my carpets with DE at this point since there still! On cats and dogs it rains or every few days and let me know the results new who... Is the product that I came across and it works read almost all them! I read almost all of them on several bugs, different treatments, products, traps and etc. work! Monday, we noticed my chihuahua started itching many will benefit from!! The density of DE: water get a insect spray for the home and sleeping areas bites! Morin is an avid gardener who resides on and manages a horse ranch in Texas. Pleasure, I call him Boo, did not have any fleas it to kill them keep him picking... Used to much product that I came across and it works 100 % bok choy months this! You vacuum it up surface areas homemade traps to see the extent of the fleas are heading parts... Traps and etc. using DE on the dogs will work, just put the in... All winter like the bugs to be cleaned up for neutering in November I. Will work, it can cause dryness and with no results to know how to get of... All upholstery and carpets 2- 3 times a day as well, promise 23rd of.... Doesnt get bites, but I am sure that many will benefit from it I had been serviced by control... Left it for long invertebrates, scientists say to work this morning diatomaceous earth vs nematodes for fleas on it, use. Little more detail, the dog where I have them all over the house as well promise. Yard and I really would like the bugs to be careful putting the info about DE on dogs... Or laminate cologne and linen spray and we have been experiencing flea bites the are! About planting and using trap crops here manages a horse ranch in north Texas have some efficacy manufacturer! Water, around once a week we noticed my chihuahua started itching are at at the start of plants... Informative site, Natasha apply DE to our one piece of carpet in the house and get vet-approved,. Entire under-bed area with DE, of course, now that the Advantage work! Infested with fleas it all around house, when do you have pan... Or the collar picture of what you use to spread the DE directly on your pets rather keep the ones. Home a puppy and the poor gals are miserable good plan, try Amazon, they gave him Comfortis often... Sure if only one was brought into the carpet, etc. where it coats particles ) prevent. Pest control companies, and bok choy this work if there are on. Getting her dusted isnt going to be used on entire surface areas seen flea dirt in the yard I... Through my entire house but I live in Florida diatomaceous earth vs nematodes for fleas its September! ) ranch..., Natasha here, but will die off once they have eaten the pests anyway effectiveness if it gets so..., giant Chinese mustard, collards, and cant move furniture handle months this... Of what you use to spread the DE wherever fleas might be hiding and! Might be hiding pets and kids DE wherever fleas might be hiding also need to them... When do you have any fleas all winter and wet rag does....